"Parents should take responsibility for their children. Garry and I have brought up three girls together to respect other people and to be home, not walking the streets causing damage and intimidating other people by drinking and abusive language."

The words of Helen Newlove, whose husband Garry was kicked to death by drunk teenagers after he tried to stop them vandalising his wife's car.

Garry Newlove paid the ultimate price for stepping in.

In September, Jack Straw, the government's own have-a-go-hero announced a change in the law to favour good citizens who stand up to do the right thing.

What about you? Have you ever got involved? broken up a fight? stopped a mugging?  And if you haven't, why not?

Comments

[Carlos Cortiglia, London Feb 18, 2008 1:26:06 PM]

The age of a teenager to become an adult should be 21 years-of-age and parents should be given back the powers to be parents. We cannot take powers away from parents and then when things go wrong blame the parents.

[Derek, Plymouth Feb 11, 2008 1:58:43 PM]

12-17 years for these murderers, you must be joking, mind you i was expecting them to get asbo's. Hey I have a good idea, why not change the laws so that murderers can be given 100 years. The people that run this country (who don't have to live in the real world, and all the do gooders)have not got a clue

[Aidan Northants Feb 7, 2008 4:12:44 PM]

i just wanted as a 16 year old we are not all bad, i will say though that there is allot of unpleasant horrible and despicable people out their, young, old poor and rich. People these days unfortunately don't seem to have respect and morals. I walked down my street the other day and all you see are people f-ing and blinding, that's the parents and the children. I think its a discrace.
I think it should be government's standing up to these yobs not people who have to work hard and pay to much tax, tax for which anti social behaviour should be covering, god help this once great nation of ours.
Aidan, Northants 16

[Josie- Australia Feb 4, 2008 8:44:15 PM]

We have recently learned of the murder of one of our relatives ( in the UK)by agressive people who thought violence was the answer.
Our hearts go out to Mrs Newlove and her daughters,we definately know whats she's been going through.
We think the people to blame these days for all the youth violence against law abiding citizens are the so called "DO GOODERS" these people have told us for years how to bring up our kids, your not allowed to chastise them with even a slight slap to bring them into line for fear someone will see you and you will end up in court.
Kids these days have more rights than their parents so you could say that the parents are at a lost end. (Although this should still not be used as an excuse)
Mind you there are those parents that bring their family up respectfully with not even a slap being given, it's all to do with teaching your children at a very young age good manners and respect for anyone & everyone.
We were brought up the old fashioned way, if you got yourself into trouble for what ever reason you knew you would get the third degee when you got home, this did not make us turn out violent if we got a slap, we knew not to get out of line again.
The buck has got to stop, so why not make these "SO GOODERS" accountable for their interference in the way they have made our lives, a case of getting them to mind their own business.
We have learnt over the years that one person on their own may be reluctant to challenge groups who are damaging his or her property or becoming a pest in the street.
The law has to change and so do the the rights of parents.

[Jack Garratt ...Norway. Jan 29, 2008 7:12:29 PM]

There is an awful lot of complaining and pointing the finger, but I believe the problem with Britain is you and me!!
We have let morals, respect, communication and discipline be replaced with...'Well you gotta have a laugh haven't ya'!
Sure, but at who's expense? I'm afraid its you and me, the ordinary person who are becoming the laughing stock of Europe.

I heard someone say recently,'Britain is no longer great but fast becoming a little sewer that's taking on a life of its own'

Britain has all it needs to be great again. If we miss the chance and don't get a grip on what's happening we will lose more than we know.
Future generations will look back, point the finger and put the fault squarely on you and I...Don't wait for the government to do something it will not happen. It will take a few decades but you start in your own sphere of influence. Nudge people into love and joy and peace, patience and kindness, by living it out.
Parents remember: relationship with our kids determines their response. no relationship and you will have rebellion. Every child wants the security of communication and boundaries ...let it start with you and yours and remember it is never too late to start with any child even the kids who kicked the life out of Garry.
lets go for it and see where this adventure gets us!

[DENNIS HERTS Jan 25, 2008 11:17:42 AM]

Stabbings on the street.
Romaninan Children used as thieves and pickpockets.
Honour Killings.
Drunken youths terrorising the innocent.
Forced Marriages.
Innocent people unable to fight back
A film plot about the Barbarians or the Dark Ages ?

No Britain in 2008.

[Angela Blue Jan 23, 2008 11:55:23 AM]

Dear Mrs Newlove, I heard you on the News a couple of days ago....There is many mothers calling out for a voice, who would support you 100%,.....but we don't get heard....I've been trying for 4 years.....I have not had to bear a death of my love one's although it's been close....I suppose you have to suffer a death before the media is interested....It please see my sight on youtube, type in myselfrevealed in the search box....sending you love for healing and strong happy memories.....were being abused by the state here..

[Angela Blue Jan 23, 2008 11:46:51 AM]

This is what happens when a country is governed by deceit and greed, because good decent people become angry, the children become angry, this gov is not finished pushing the people to the brink...The police are just learning of their future fate, while the ordinary person has already found their living under a New World Order, justice has no place there....

[DENNIS HERTS Jan 21, 2008 10:47:29 AM]

This in a true incident !
A Police C.S.O. was ushering some children and Mums across the road at my local Primary School Mum says to toddler "Wait for the Policeman to tell you to cross" child replies " Thats a PRETEND POLICEMAN,Whats that old saying "From the mouth of babes and sucklings

[JULIE FIFE Jan 20, 2008 12:03:38 PM]

Is it just me, when I was younger and done something wrong, I was more worried about my fate when I got home. I wasn't a battered kid, but you can be sure if i done something I wasn't meant to my backside would be stinging for a while, 9 times out of 10 my parents shouting at me was enough to put the fear of good into me.
You would never back chat a Policeman, you weren't that brave, if you being wise at school you got the belt. I am only 32 why have things changed so much.
Now, if a parent spanks a child, the kid can get them charged, you see 8-10 year olds out at 10-11 at night, if a policeman give them a warning then what ever, kids know they are minors so they answer back, if they misbehave at school they get a few days off.
If someone breaks into your house and you try to protect your family, your the one who is arrested and the thief can sue you.
This is a result of to many do gooders that are dictating how we should be living and relaxing the law instead of enforcing it.I am a believer that the punishment should fit the crim. If you are an honest person what do yo have to worry about.

[DENNIS HERTS Jan 19, 2008 11:00:12 AM]

Plastic Plods C.S.O. as much use as a chocolate fire guard,I have a neighbour aged 86 owner of a fiery Jack Russel who is more use at keeping the yobs away as she says "I have got sod all to lose at my age and no one is going to make my life a misery" I have not seen a REAL POLICE OFFICER in my area for the past 4-5 months what the hell are we paying out tax for ?.

[Richard in Skipton Jan 18, 2008 4:43:57 PM]

Thanks to the Politicians and our wonderful Judiciary we have to be very careful not to use too much force, even against burglars. Who would have the confidence to intervene in an assault under those circumstances. This situation needs to be addressed so that any brave person who would intervene could have the confidence of the backing of the Authorities in such situations.
The army would also sort out these loafers by breaking and rebuilding them to have respect for people and property. No appeals, no observers waving white flags, just hard discipline.Why not give it a try.
I recall the american guy who sprayed graffiti on cars in Singapore didn't spray any more after his flogging. How about some of that as a deterrent in this country. It would work very quickly and show up as such in the statistics the politicians love so much.
In addition, the Goverment should invest in more youth facilities because there's no doubt the Devil finds work for idle hands. Most kids would attend these facilities and that would filter out the real bad guys still on the streets to be picked off by the police. Here you have some basic suggestions which if implemented in the correct way would change society in a generation.

[david brown, coventry. Jan 18, 2008 4:38:34 PM]

in october 2004 my daughter sarah was murderd by her partner,she was only 21,she suffered an horrific death, where he stamped on her head,sarah drowned in her own blood,her partner got a life sentence and he must serve 20 yrs before being considered for parole,i do know how helen newlove and her daughters feel towards murderers,we should bring back hanging or the leathal injection,it would make people think twice before committiing violence or the taking of someones precious life,like garry newlove,my daughter sarah,and many more.not a day goes by without me talking about sarah,it is happening everyday somebody is murdered,im the father of sarah,emma,and james, well myself and emma and james are going to be shot,when emmas exboyfriend comes out of prison,hes in prison for firearms offences,i have been to the police about this,and they say there is nothing they can do to help,the reason being is that it does not say my name on the letter,in the letter it says,i have a bullet with your dads name,and your brothers name on it,i cant understand it as im emmas dad,and also he will get his boys to visit me,my son james has already been assaulted by one of his boys,i live in fear especially when im out visiting or going to town,so we must stop gang violence,ok dave brown,coventry.

[Jamie: Wirral Jan 18, 2008 4:04:56 PM]

i was attacked by a gang of youths on the early hours of new years day, when the police arrived they wanted to arrest me for drunk and disorderly because i was agressive, i had just been attacked by 6 youths of which 4 of them where still around me when the police arrived they payed no attention to them at all, and just wanted to arrest me. God knows what those kids are and will be capable of doing top someone else, now they think they can get away with it. It's a disgrace how things are dealt with, i'm sure if i had assalted one of them i'd have been charged. The law is a joke.

[Wesley, Newcastle Jan 18, 2008 3:54:55 PM]

Why are some people baffled by the fact that they never see a 'bobby' walking their streets? Don't you know that the bobby and his beat was abolished by Roy Jenkins on 7 December 1966? Would you like to see it restored? If so, then why do you continually cast your votes for the main political parties of this country, which are against this ever happening?

Neither the Labour or Tory party exists by divine fiat. Both are institutionally dead and have nothing to say to any of you. The British people can bring them down by refusing to vote for them en masse. Something better then has the chance to emerge at Westminster.

[Maud, the Netherlands Jan 18, 2008 3:41:43 PM]

I, like all the other posters here, felt shocked and horrified at the senseless death of Mr. Newlove at the hands of those brutal and feral teenagers. I don't know what is happening in Britain today. I left the country many years ago but I do visit often. I have noticed changes over the years - mostly not for the best. We have had successive weak governments and bit by bit many of our rights have been taken away. As other posters have mentioned, one is not allowed to discipline one's children, magistrates and police seem to have very little power, so many excuses are made - none are acceptable for this kind of behaviour or crime. We need tougher laws, more punishment in school and parenting classes in many cases...but which government would ever take such steps? Not many of us would be proud to be British these days I reckon.

[Dennis, Cramlington Northumberland Jan 18, 2008 1:22:35 PM]

I have mother-in-law Ruth (90 yrs of age) sitting alongside and have read some of these posts to her...

Her views (verbatim):-

"In my childhood people would consider others before themselves; if they could do do you a good turn they would, and help you all they could.

They would not stab you in the back. That's the way life was in those days.

Money didn't matter; it was friendship that counted.

The Police were respected, yes; definitely...
...(Why?) ..because they were the tops; they too would do you a good turn if they could. You knew you could trust them.

(Did people used to get drunk?)...On very rare occasions; they did not have the money to get senseless.

Sometimes if a man was coming home on pay day with his wage packet, he might be persuaded to pop into the pub and be tempted to have more than one drink, but most men were honest and loyal to their wives.

In those days we didn't have the money to do the things the youth want to do today, so we used to make our own enjoyment; such as playing bays (hopscotch), hide & seek, and so on. Later on the teenagers looked forward to the Chapel socials on a Saturday night - because you were sure of some 'kissy rings' (a game where the participants got a number and were selected for a kiss by someone calling out a random number?).

They Socials were a 10 o'clock close. My dad used to say 'get yourself straight home'; the pit buzzer used to go and I had to be at the door to get in when it went off - or I was in big trouble. I might be saying goodnight to a nice lad and the buzzer went off and I was off like a shot...

We were all more or less on a level; it what not a case of 'he's got this and such & such has got that'; and we shared twhat we had as well. There was no jealously and the parents were very strict.

Today people get things too easy; in my day what you had either you worked for, or your dad worked for.

At school the teachers wouldn't stand any monkey business; their word went, they knew best. They were there to keep you on the straight and narrow. We respected them, even if some were horrible.

These days, the trouble is that these people have got used to having so much, and having got it so easily. We had to earn everything.

What we didn't have, our friends shared with us, and we did the same for them'.

(Exactly as she spoke).

---------------

(So, that's Thatcherism, Policing, Drink, State-handouts, Do-gooders, Nanmby-pambyism, and Parents, & possibly TV & Religion to blame then?).

[DENNIS HERTS Jan 18, 2008 12:03:32 PM]

"Bored and nothing to do lets go out and kick someone to death" its about time these do- gooders got it through their heads that nothing you do will alter some of these evil yobs,As a past Instructor at a Outdoor Centre we made every effort to involve the local youth culture providing financial help to those from low income families so they could take part,a few sessions of getting a little cold wet and having to put in a bit of team work and they were back on the street corner,we did have some who stayed the course and I hope went on to be better people,but I am afraid my milk of human kindness went when some of the youths we tried to help returned robbed and smashed up the centre.

[Jason, Reading Jan 18, 2008 12:02:41 PM]

I have to agree with Dennis Herts comments.

I have not seen a REAL POLICE OFFICER in my area hardly over the last year let alone the last 4 months.

I have only seen 3 or 4 plastic plods in this time also.

What the hell right do the Govenmant have raising council Tax when we are not getting the protection we pay for.

[DENNIS HERTS Jan 18, 2008 11:30:00 AM]

There was and item on the news regarding a Martial Arts Club teaching stick and walking cane to Senior Citizens for self defence "What a great idea" but whats the betting if one of them was to use it they would end up in court before you could say Bruce Lee.

[DENNIS HERTS Jan 18, 2008 10:48:41 AM]

May I suggest that members of this blog make a truthful count of just how many times you see a REAL POLICE OFFICER (Not plastic plods) in your area I have not seen one for at least 4 months and I am out and about every day and evening.

[Shirley in London Jan 18, 2008 10:32:45 AM]

The young people in Warrington have said they were bored and had nothing to do and that groups of young people had started drinking. We know that boredom and under confidence can make young people vulnerable to alcohol misuse. That’s why it’s great to see Mentor UK’s interest in hearing about schemes that help youngsters avoid the risks of trying alcohol by tackling boredom or the lack of aspiration, or schemes that encourage achievement and motivation.

They’ve launched the Mentor UK CHAMP Awards this week (Promoting Children’s Health through Alcohol Misuse Prevention) which recognizes and rewards schemes in Great Britain that help prevent youngsters of 14 and under misusing alcohol with £20,000 to help them expand their projects and share with others about how they have achieved their success in promoting healthy attitudes and behaviour and preventing alcohol misuse amongst young people.

If the Cheshire chief constable on patrol the night Mr Newlove was kicked to death by the gang has said that more needed to be done to prevent drunk teenagers doing "stupid things", then people in this area should see if there are clubs, schools or projects that could benefit from these awards. Details can be found at www.mentorfoundation.org/uk/awards

[scott, livingston, Scotland Jan 18, 2008 9:39:03 AM]

I myself am 19 years of age and i think these kids need to made an example of. The Goverment need to show young thugs like this that they cannot and will not get away with this kind of behaviour. They have shattered the lives of the newlove family beyond repair and my deepest sympathy's goes out to Mrs Newlove's family and friends.

[London, Middlesex Jan 18, 2008 7:53:35 AM]

This is about time we should open our eyes and educate ourselves and our children from childhood. The lesson “How to live in a society” starts from home and from childhood. These criminals are mindless thugs have no remorse to what they did to an innocent citizen who was trying to show his concerns against a crime being committed to an innocent person. But at the result he lost his life and criminals got slap on the wrist. This government is showing its weaknesses’ since Tony Blair in power in every way shape or form and that it is losing notonly iraq war but all battles at home , This is another example of government's lenient approach on everything from Education to Justice. The police are powerless and when the criminals are caught they receive just a slap o the wrist and freed to go for another bigger and horrible crime just because our jails are overcrowded and we do not have enough TV’s in our jails or not enough facilities for poor criminals. Amir Khan, Ruislip Middlesex

[Andy, Haywards Heath Jan 18, 2008 6:11:29 AM]

This is disgusting. I'm a 19 year old myself and I wouldn't dream of trying to hurt someone. let alone kill them. Yes ok i like to drink, but i do so in a pub or at home with friends and we sit talk and laugh. We don't roam the streets looking for trouble afterwards. I hear people saying that the age restriction for alcohol should be raised? what's the point? we raised the age for cigarettes and young kids are still getting their hands on them, age restrictions on these products will do nothing because anti social kids like these will still get their hands on it. I find myself hearing that we don't do anything to these kids because they're not old enough to be 'Tried as an adult'. What a load of rubbish, look at england nowadays... who causes the most trouble, adults or kids? so why give them a time frame to get away with it? "Oh yes, cause as much trouble as you want while you can, coz when you're older we can finally do something to you." why not make them responsible from the word go? I know i've gone on a bit here but i'm getting sick of it. every few weeks im hearing the story of teenage violence, and even now i get people who look at me with fear because i wear a leather jacket and have a cigarette in my hand and that makes me feel bad because as a person i don't like intimidating people. I try my best to be polite and respectful towards everyone else, and my upbringing can hardly be called perfect. These kids need to get a grip, these kids need to actually be punished and not scolded. And for a final note, All my deepest sympathies for the newlove family, i don't even want to imagine the pain you're going through and that you're still getting on with life and making a stand against kids such as these deserves my full and unconditional respect. Well done.

[Jack Jan 18, 2008 6:02:08 AM]

The government are to balme to a degree, but where are the parents. If they were there to set out some ground rules, for their kids when they were younger we woundnt have this problem. I know most parents would rather have fun and leave their kids to be a problem for someone else. Take responsibility for your kids!!

[AK, London Jan 18, 2008 12:00:16 AM]

In our society there is a huge problem with alcohol, drugs, crime etc. The blame lies with parents, the government, the justice system - and unfortunately things will only get worse as they have been for many years now. With regards to intervening, I was on my lunch break in Wimbledon one day. I was walking past a bus stop when I noticed a woman looking into another woman's rucksack. She stole a purse and hurried away down an alleyway. I followed her and grabbed her in the alleyway. The situation could have turned very nasty as I was on my own and had no idea how many people were with her. After a few minutes into the confrontation two off duty police officers were walking down the alleyway, who subsequently arrested the woman. She was consequently prosecuted and the victim was returned her valet. The victim wrote me a thank you letter in which she wrote that the valet contained a picture of her late partner and she was so glad that this was returned to her.

[Jo. West Midlands Jan 17, 2008 10:40:47 PM]

I also think we are powerless to stop this happening. My daughter's boyfriend was attacked (totally unprovoked) 2 years ago by a gang of 4/5 yobs. He was attacked from behind and beaten and kicked whilst on the floor. My daughter was left screaming and trying to get the thugs off; no one came to their aide. The victim was taken to hospital and now has to wear glasses as the kicks to head have damaged his eye sight. The police were notified and my daughter was the only witness (no one else would come forward); they were both 16 at the time and when the police came to take a statement my daughter made it clear she was prepared to stand in a court room to show these thugs they cannot get away with this thuggish behaviour. I was present when the statement was taken from my daughter and then the police officers asked to speak with me alone. I was appalled at the fact I was asked by the officer to try and talk her out of being a witness because they did not think it was worth it; they went on to say there may be repercussions from the gang for my daughter and she could also be hurt by them etc etc. We have brought both our daughters up to respect others and do the right thing; I was totally shocked by the attitude of the police officer and asked what chance we stand against these people if we just let them get away with it. The investigation never got any further (a further statement was supposed to be taken from my daughter but the officers never came back!) and to this day the gang have never even been spoken to and apparently they are well known!! What sort of justice system do we have in this country, I certainly do not have any faith in it.

[chris landragin Jan 17, 2008 10:22:03 PM]

Unfortunately this government has lost sight of the people in this country, all different types and colours. Until they get back on track with what the people are asking for, instead of making decisions on what they think is best for the people and the country,there will be those who will take the law into their own hands and especially those of the age where they think "we'll get away with this".

[Mike: Devon Jan 17, 2008 9:42:22 PM]

Politicians condemn the rising 'culture of youth violence' and rightly so but fails to address the root cause, instead they are intent to destroy family life at an alarming rate.
We are but one of many charities/organizations who on a daily basis find ourselves confronted with the tragedy that has become all to clear since government incentives were introduced to secure children for the conveyor belt of foster care and adoption via Social Services this from wholesome parents.
Reiterate we must, for was it not the Queen in her Christmas message who stressed the importance of the family.
She said that traditional family values had a much-needed stabilizing effect in our rapidly-changing world.
The Queen, 81, said: "One of the features of growing old is heightened awareness of change.
"To remember what happened 50 years ago means that it is possible to appreciate what has changed in the meantime. It also makes you aware of what has remained constant.
In my experience, the positive value of a happy family is one of the factors of human existence that has not changed. The immediate family of grandparents, parents and children, together with extended family, is still the core of a thriving community." Unquote.
For our part the NSCFC respectfully applauds such words of wisdom by the Queen and wishes to publically beseech her majesty as the constitutional monarch, to express, encourage and warn of the dire consequences were her Government to continue to dismantle family life thus leading to a defragmented society in which children are the ultimate victims.
Breakdown in Society and family life is that of the Prime Minister and his parties own making, hence if Gordon Brown does not address this reality neither he nor anyone else in the Labour Party will be fit for office.
Fact, since 1997 when Labour came to office well over 300,000 children have needlessly lost contact with their fathers due to the unjust family court system which favours mothers and denies children and fathers the Right to family life as should be so in accordance with Human Rights Act article 8 and the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Sadly due to PM policy and ideology re family law 100 children per day loose contact and over one million grandparents like all grandparents have no legal presumption to see their grandchildren, indeed all the paternal side of the child’s family is removed after separation or divorce by judges who put the interest of mothers regardless of character before the interest of the children.

Also reminded are we that 40% of all children in our schools are from one parent families, many of whom through no fault of their own have become dysfunctional in their mindset and conduct, that this in turn leads to underachievement and anti social behaviour. Only the other day Social Services contacted us as to how we felt this can be tackled and handled within the school setting given that it impacts on everyone concerned. So easy is it for us to condemn youngsters today as if their conduct bears no relation to the lack of role models they have been denied in their formative years in the form of fathers, mothers, grandparents and extended family. Hence it’s no wonder that many youngsters turn to gangs as a sense of belonging and so begins the downward spiral. Parity in family law is a must if we are to have any chance of addressing children, parents and family love denied due to State interference and this the Government needs to acknowledge and address with full commitment, only then will we have any chance on reversing the downward spiral akin to juvenile delinquency and the ramifications thereof.

[Dennis, Cramlington Northumberland Jan 17, 2008 9:33:38 PM]

I tried to submit this once before but it was rejected; I don't know why.
It is a serious suggestion.
I am NOT advocating (as many millions might) that violent criminals are stoned to death, hanged, punished by chained up incarceration or even in any way physically harmed for the killings and brutality they have inflicted on innocent humans.....

I agree with Helen Newlove about our 'parenting' shortfalls and the patheticness and ineffectiveness of the Government's 'initiatives' and little real action so far.

I was brought up in post-war new-build estate in a large Northern town where people were respectful of each other, and of their community, and the general feeling was NOT of being unsafe.

However, after about 15 years or so, a 'slum-clearance' programme elwhere in the town shifted lots of rougher people into our estate, and before very long the nice new built area became (and still is, only worse) an unsafe and dangerous area, a haven for violent criminals, thugs, addicts and system cheating anti-socials.

The reason?

Poorly educated - sometimes 'deprived' maybe - but mainly uncaring and irresponsible 'scummy' people who have rubbished the area and the local community with it.

Q: Nnd what of their (many) poor little unwanted children (unwanted except for the purposes of state hand-outs to fund cigarettes, drink and gambling) born as a result of their lack of parental concern or interest?

A: Exactly the same attitudes and irresponsibilities as their parent(s), or even worse.

And then again what of those new wonder citizens born of and continuing so much hatred for the common good? They are similar bad parents producing and parenting (loose term)yetn more bad children. And those children's children since and those yet to come, ad infinitum?

The same or even worse, always.

The only real answer is to deprive those - who constantly cheat the state, commit continual serious offences, & who don't care a jot about other people - of their right to produce any offspring.

Initially I propose voluntary vasectomies or steriliastion - as an alternative to fines - and compulsory similar as part of the penalty for serious or repeat offenders.

Remember: bad parents make bad children become bad parents, who then themselves make bad children who become bad parents.

Too many do-gooders about the place.

Something has to be done to recognise and protect the human rights of decent people, not the villains.

Thank you.

[Brenda Landes (Samuel) Jan 17, 2008 8:57:18 PM]

There is so much that can be done to prevent this senseless violence.
1/ Schools should invite families of victims to speak to schoolchildren. Such projects are more important than more maths lessons.etc.Education for values and non violent problem solving as a regular part of the school curriculum.

2 real punishments for deliquents together with teaching them to communicate with people and learning of skills.

3 Stop cultivating the drinking culture of society. In East Enders every problem (small example} ends up in having drinks in the pub or downing a couple of bottles of wine at home.
It seems to me that this may be too late as almost every level of British society drinks. I agree with the contributor to this forum who states that Drinking is far more dangerous to the public than smoking. [From road accidents to senseles violence and the ruination of the drinker's own health.

No pub should be allowed to let anyone get drunk!!

[John - Ipswich Jan 17, 2008 6:45:51 PM]

I have the utmost respect and sympathy for the family of Gary Newlove who have become the victims of our failing society. Every day there is someone on the news, either government or from some pressure group advocating a ban on something whether it be due to global warming or some other excuse. Society needs to move forward with some historic examples. Children are the responsibility of parents who should guide them as to social responsibility towards others and the manner in which right or wrong is decided. Alcohol is blamed for our ills, what rubbish, it is the way in which it is abused by the minority. Do we ban football matches for the majority because a few cause trouble. No, we deal with the minority. The police should be out on the streets. The police winge about the situation, but they have ample powers to deal with landlords/club owners and to deal with those causing problems. But it takes the will and management to have a zero tollerance of social disorder. Social balance is gained by personal responsibility supported by firm policing and government. Unfortunately we have a meltdown in all three areas.

[Sheila Edinburgh Jan 17, 2008 4:36:00 PM]

After having read a few posts about blaming the parents, try to remember that the government have taken away the right for the parent to punish the child, the parents are just as helpless as the police. Its about time that people banded together to show the government that its time the laws were changed regarding this and giving the police and the parents the power back

[Sam Twickenham Jan 17, 2008 3:23:53 PM]

There is just no deterhent anymore in society. This is the result of the government's softly softly approach on everything from Education to Justice. The police are powerless and when the criminals are caught they receive light sentences from the courts. We as a society look down on countries such as Iran and call them barbaric but they still retain a sense of decency and the law of the land is a life for a life.

[Natalie, Birmingham Jan 17, 2008 1:55:56 PM]

I have just listened to Mrs. Newloves statement on the radio and I was moved beyond belief. The problem with these evil people is that they have the law on their side. Nothing is done to protect the victim. Our family home was recently broken into by a group of fifteen year olds. They were caught, however 2 were released and back on the streets within 12 hours and the other has been sentenced to 12 months in a holiday camp they call a detention centre. Now this group know our identities through photos and information they stole but we have been told we cant find out who they are because of their age. My belief is that this country is on its knees. A criminal is a criminal in my eyes and should be treated as so. How many more familes need to be torn apart before somebody stands up and does something. These youths who are all to happy to sponge off the state and break the law without any punishment will continue to do so until a stronger stance is taken, wether that be by parents, government or society. I have never responded like this before but i believe that every responsible hard working citizen should back Mrs Newlove until the pen pushers who pretend to run this country actually start making a stand. yes, i think its a fantastic idea to put these youths into boot camp training. If they are brave enough to terrorise people like us then surely a war zone will no problem for them!! In fact i dont think any punishment would be too harsh. If Mrs Newlove is reading these comments i would like her i think her family is extremely brave and for her to know that I am right behind her and i think we should all be. I dont want these words just to be archived somewhere, i think as tax paying people its our right to live in a safe environment.

[donna from wigan Jan 17, 2008 1:51:26 PM]

I blame the police. My son (aged 16 at the time) had to go to hospital for xrays to his face because he was beaten up so badly by a gang of about 15 youths aged between 16-20 just because he was from a different town. We gave statements to the police we even had names and telephone numbers of a few of them. What did the police do? NOTHING! and since then we have heard of numerous incidents in that area. Theres no deterent they arnt scared of the law because they know they can get away with it, so they will do it again and again but maybe next time someone could get killed, by then its too late.

[Wesley, Newcastle Jan 17, 2008 1:12:12 PM]

The only person who has ever proposed sensible, effective measures for dealing with this nightmare is Peter Hitchens. How I long for the media to interview him and discuss his book 'A Brief History of Crime', in which he gets to the heart of what has gone wrong with Britain and explains how we actually used to get it so right.

The more that the media and the politicians continue to listen to those such as Camilla Batmanghelidjh, the more Garry Newloves' there will be dying needlessly.

[Pat , Warrington Jan 17, 2008 1:09:06 PM]

I rang the police last week because 4 young lads were hanging about my husband`s van with an iron bar in their hands. I didn`t tell my husband because I was afraid he would go & say something to them & be attacked with the bar. Years ago he wouldn`t have thought anyting of telling them to go away

[Jason, Reading Jan 17, 2008 12:54:04 PM]

Why I have the deepest sympathy for Helen Newlove & her 3 daughters I have to disagree about blaming the parents. yes there are some parents out there who don't give a stuff what they kids do but most are powerless thanks to this joke of a Government & Social Services. My sister has 6 children & one of them is 16 & just got out of a youth prison, they knew there was a major issue with him since a young age & begged for help but the Social workers did not want to know even when the Police tried to talk to them & for the last 2 years my sister & brother in law begged the Courts to send him down to teach him a lesson but they did not do anything till he got worse as I guess he thought well I am only going to get a slap on the wrist by the courts so to hell with it. He seems to have learned is lesson & has promised he will make sure his siblings do not make the mistakes he did, but kids should not be able to get away with the things they do these days. I still today cant understand what harm a firm hand will do, I not one for beating kids but clip round the hear or a good smack on the backside never did me any harm in fact I got a lot worse when I was a lad if I pushed my luck too far. the moral of this story is PLEASE MR BROWN PUT YOUR FINGER OUT OF YOU BACK SIDE give parents back some power to use reasonable corporate punishment & for god sakes bring back NATIONAL SERVICE & teach these kids some respect. everyone try's to blame it on alcohol when its is lack of discipline due to the Laws passed on parents not being able to punish unruly kids.

[DENNIS HERTS Jan 17, 2008 12:51:50 PM]

The Goverment have lost the plot their only answer is to make stupid laws regarding guns and knives that will have no effect on the criminals, do the Goverment think that criminals are wasting time re-activating old and imitation fire arms when the can go out and hire or buy the real thing for £50 (We have our inaffective Eastern Europe border controls to thank for many of these guns.look around you kitchen how many knives ? get the point !! The terrible death of Gary Newlove supports the case for more real Police on the streets,come on ! a guy in the area had set up his own C,C,T,V. because of trouble in the area,as his wife said "Someones going to get killed" They Did !

[Phil, Bradford Jan 17, 2008 12:41:13 PM]

It's time MP's And Government got tough. No more rehibilitation, but punishment. The country has now been taken over by the liberal left, with a soft approach to everything, and it's support for the Human rights act. Brown and his cohorts need to take a look at themselves, and accept their part in the senceless killings happening in this day and age. We have had 10 years of this Government and in that time Law and Order, is worse than when I grew up as a teenager in a time of corporal punishment in school and teachers who knew how to handle out of control pupils. I asked a few teenagers on a bus to turn off their MP3 phone as it was annoying and anti-social. All I got in return was a mouthful of abuse and expletives. This is as they were going to school. We see on th News one of Mr Newloves killers smirking at the camera, I just hope that smirk is wiped off this pondlifes face when he gets behind bars (one way or another). Mrs Newlove is a brave Woman and she deserves all our support.

[tony chadwick Jan 17, 2008 12:38:30 PM]

i think its time that we were allowed to carry defensive sprays like mace a lot of these thugs carry knives and no one has any means of defending themselves . At least it would give you the chance to escape.
i also think that the cane should be brought back to schools it never did me no harm except to have more respect for my peers.stopping adults smacking their children will also make matters worse.

[Julie Healey Leigh Lancs Jan 17, 2008 12:38:10 PM]

I feel & understand exactly what Mrs Newlove & her family are going to I lost my Dad to the hands of a drunkenwho beat/kicked my Dad to death so much we were unable to see him to even say our last goodbyes this happen last April.This yob had also only been back on the streets for a short period of time & then rob us of Dad.We should give Mrs Newlove our backing to make our streets safer I most certainly will

[Jennifer Broadbent, Sheffield Jan 17, 2008 12:36:58 PM]

This yob who did this should never come out of jail. Life is what this lad should get, life for a life. My sympathy & my heart goes out to the Newlove family. Where are his parents, they should show their faces, they too should go down for what their son did. At the end of the day, the parents are responsible for what their children get up to.

[tony chadwick Jan 17, 2008 12:36:26 PM]

i think its time that we were allowed to carry defensive sprays like mace a lot of these thugs carry knives and no one has any means of defending themselves . At least it would give you the chance to escape.
i also think that the cane should be brought back to schools it never did me no harm except to have more respect for my peers.stopping adults smacking their children will also make matters worse.

[ipswich Jan 17, 2008 12:03:54 PM]

i been listen to the case of the newlove family about drinking on the street to stop young teenages well i think that the government should ban drinking alltogether as they ban smoking wich dont cause the trouble on streets but the drink causes all the voilance on the street so bring smoking back ban drink

[Steven, Welwyn Garden City Jan 17, 2008 11:59:56 AM]

When I grew up 40 years ago we learnt from our parents and teachers repect for ourselves other people and the law. We were taught what was right and what was wrong.
If we did something wrong there were consequences, sometimes physical punishment at home and/or at school. I wouldn't say we lived in fear but it did prevent most of us from being involved in the deplorable mindless violence, drunken teenage thuggery and criminality we so often see today. The government along with the so -called "dogooders" ,various parlimentary acts and laws have all removed the consequences, so we are left with what we see today.Physical punishment at home or at schools is now called assault, and the police and courts are left with issuing useless ASBO's and cautions.Teenagers are well aware of how useless these are and openly laugh at them. They are no deterrent and teenagers know it.
There are no consequences!
Nothing will change.

How long will it be before another person is killed in this way?

[david Jan 17, 2008 11:40:03 AM]

With the view of the Chief Constable of Staffordshire that this related to cheap booze surely it was also the responsible of the Police to also answer the requirements of the Community that had been experiencing these Problems for a period of time.

[melissa middleton Devon Jan 17, 2008 11:31:18 AM]

I am on my way to court today in hope that a permanant asbo will be served on a youth who made life hell for a whole town and neighbourhood. At one point last year life got so bad that I had a total breakdown no where was safe and the police had their hands tied by the law. This is not about alcohol it is about being responsible for our own children and standing up for what we believe in. It is about changing laws and allowing the police to do their jobs properly. It is about youths accepting there is a consequence for their actions and being made responsible for that. But most of all it is about britains people and politicians saying we are not going to allow this to happen and taking action now.

[mark ,london Jan 17, 2008 11:25:01 AM]

If this youths feel they can do anything without fear of punishment,what about punishing the parents.The son
commits the crime the parent should go to prison.that way breaks the age restriction.I think that`s the only way.

[John (Herts) Jan 17, 2008 11:24:32 AM]

I am horrified with this event! I can't believe that the kids these days act so violently. This has stop! We need to fight against these yobs, otherwise it will be our family next.

This definitely come to the point where the government should really tackle these yobs out there. If they can't be imprisoned, let them do community service, at least for 6 months or so. I don't care about their human rights if they beat up someone and killed them.

[Andy London Jan 17, 2008 11:18:58 AM]

It's the least those young men should get! All I can ask is that they are given a really nice welcome in jail and looked after for the duration of there stay. By REAL hard men and not small boys that have to gang up in nummbers, to act hard and beat or kill respectable human beings only looking to protect there families and property.

[Lynne Cheltenham Jan 17, 2008 11:18:40 AM]

I would step in or do anything if I saw my home or car being vandalised. What is mine is mine, I have worked hard for these items, these little pieces of s....ts dont't give a damn about anything. So why should I not defend my property against this. Yes, even if it means I have to go to jail, free food, free tv, free excercises paid for by the Tax Payer of course. There is nothing else free in this country. The Police and parents dont have any power, most parents dont care, where I live there are kids roaming around at 10pm causes problems, What will it take for things to be done, perhaps the PM needs to have these kids near his property doing the damage for awhile and interfering with his family lives. Get real!!!! This won't happen. The UK is raising a generation of idiots.

[shaun lees Jan 17, 2008 11:15:43 AM]

who we blame then,the goverment or the parents.
i have a 18yr step son and he wanted to go get drunk on the streets with is mates when he was 16,i told him to go live else where then and he did,since he has been drinking he has been in and out of trouble and ended up in hospital a few times due to drunken fighting,i blame his parents i did what i could do,i really feel for this family for there loss,asked why i don,t go in to town anymore for a drink,in my day you would have a fist fight,now you get stabbed or shot,theres not enough police doing things abot this and where i,m from there is nothing for the local kids to do so they they drunk and smoke pot.i don,t no the answers but alot of blame is down to the parents,i understand that the yob involed in this crime was just out on bail,if my son was out on bail he would,nt be goin through the door thays for sure.

[Linda, Lower Earley Jan 17, 2008 10:54:05 AM]

When I was a teenager 40 years ago I used to drink behind my parents' backs (I think most of the population probably did) but I was not a yob and neither were any of my friends. We never vandalised anything or hurt anyone. The worst I ever did was a bit of scrumping! What I did do was have respect for the law and authority which is not the case today. There is no deterrent and no respect for the law or anybody else. We need to start getting tougher now before it gets even worse. I'm also fed up with hearing "there's nothing to do". What rubbish, there's much more to do now than ever.

[linda holywell Jan 17, 2008 10:52:57 AM]

I have told my granddaughter (who has just turned 11 years) not to roam the streets in the dark,but she still does because her mother lets her.
What else can i do!
She came to us the other night because she was being chased by boys...

[John Rutley, Cramlington Jan 17, 2008 10:42:32 AM]

This shocking story just highlights how useless the politions are. They will make very sympathetic noises and say they are going to do something but in the end they will do nothing. Society is suffering from the 'do gooders' who advocated the 'no smacking of children law'. Consequently children under 18 generally feel that they can do anything without fear of punishment. Gangs who are guilty of this type of behaviour only understand one thing PAIN!!. Give them lots of PAIN and the majority will adjust their behaviour.

[izy Inverness Jan 17, 2008 10:32:02 AM]

i wouldn't step in or do anything if i saw my car getting vandalised i'd say nothing because of the mentality of these youths, they do not care who or what they hurt and if you say anything about it things will get alot worse for you. as for the police, where are they when all this trouble is going on?? and what do they do to help, in my experience, nothing.

[J, Ireland Jan 17, 2008 10:13:49 AM]

What has happened to Gary Newlove is disgusting, who are the parents of these youths? They also need to take resposibilty for their childrens actions, they have robbed this family of a husband and a father in the most brutal way possible. The letter Amy wrote to her father is so touching and I hope the love she writes about in the letter keeps the family going.

[mark brighton Jan 17, 2008 10:07:11 AM]

I think a great deal of people make assumptions at home not having kids. My son is in Jail spent his 16th birthday , christmas and will spend his next birthday in Prison. He comes from a good family and loving mum. He started getting into the usual trouble at school and away from school. The School washed there hands of the problem and throw him out and when he was arrested the first time he was very frightened but the law did not come down on him hard and he just laughed at the results. From then on it was a losing battle. Every time he was arrested We got fined and parenting orders which made it even more funny for my son.
"i`ve got away with it again they can `t touch me you always get the fines HA HA"
H e is now in prison and is upset about it all but what a waist if only Yop and the law gave OUT a strong sentence first he would have learned early.AS WITH MOST LADS ON MY ESTATE

[Khalid Jan 17, 2008 10:00:38 AM]

After listening again to the heartbreaking words of Mrs Newlove, I cannot express my condolences strong enough and ask this simple question "Y Tribe".
Society, by far and large is of the decent calibre, yet there are numerous parents around that should neither be allowed to keep their kids, let alone have them in the first place. To continually put the blame at the door of the police is a very old and tired excuse, whereas legislators must forthwith put in place stern penalties,relieve magistrates from hearing anything other than trivial admin cases (if that) and the sentence should be life for life and 6 years in the army. "Enough Is Enough". In answer to your question, where assistance has been required it has been delivered in a manner that sense is knocked back in the mind of the thug. If any one is to be blamed it is the law of the land, and unless that is changed for the worse, tragic events will be laughed at by those commiting such attrocities.

[Tony Metz Jan 17, 2008 9:57:00 AM]

Today, we have gone to the dogs. There is no respect anymore. The other day, I asked someone politely to extinguish his cigarette in a lift (illegal here in France) and was told to **** off. Before that, same lift, a guy gets out and starts hammering the lift with a claw hammer...BUT, where are the damn parents here. It is NOT governments (any)responsabilities in the home, it is PARENTS.You intervene, you are (here) often called a RACIST....I'm not even French!!!, then the gang steps in ant violence can often ensue. I have had my car destroyed by fire (no relation to the riots) simply because I asked someone to move from MY private parking place... The TEENAGER responsible for this, is 15, and already has at least 80 pending cases...
We blame the governments, schools and their programs, and indeed, some blame could be given, but for me, the root problem is at HOME...Why is a little 15 year old thug out at night? Where are the PARENTS? The young today have little or no respect even for their own parents....and the parents cede to this...The future??? not very promising..Interfere? not worth your life I am afraid to say.

[Jeanette, Manchester Jan 17, 2008 9:47:00 AM]

We live in fear these days and daren't even protect our own homes and cars or face gangs of youths shouting and swearing outside for fear of reprisal attacks. Its a sad time indeed - I have in the past stepped in if I saw someone in danger however after recent events I would not be as forthcoming. I have a family of my own who need me and its all so obvious that you need to think about yourself first and foremost.